QaR
November 2008 
What is the difference between religion and a cult
Posted on Nov 29th, 2007
by 
B.B.
B.B.
What is the difference between religion and a cult in todays terms?
I've never been a member of either but what draws people to this?
Is religion better than a cult? Is it the same thing?
Why do ufos have a lot to do with these new cults?
What if any is the guiding force behind cults?
Why do I feel bored when I am around people who thump Bibles?
Is there a chance that religion will play a big role in people's lives in the next one hundred years.
If not what is next?
Is there a God?
How is it that there are moments in my life for which I have no explanation and neither does anyone else,yet i sense there is some deeper meaning.
Am I destined to be clueless my whole life?In the scheme of things does it matter?
Access: Public
the only difference i perceive between religions and cults is how they recruit new members. Cults use brainwashing to force adult people to change their beliefs. Reliigions, instead, indoctrinate children who have not formed their own beliefs yet. But the methods and the results are the same, as far as I can tell.
Hmm, if Jesus and his followers were here today, they would be considered a cult. What do you all think?
Friendstacy your answer makes sense.I've always been on the fence about this stuff as I am about most of the big questions;-)I grew up surrounded by a multitude of religious people,one thing you didn't do was question someone's beliefs,yet isn't part of growing finding the answers,and if this is so wouldn't asking people what they get from it or why they were drawn to it shed some light on their choice?
Everyone from Oprah to Bin Laden praise the wisdom of the book,whether it be the Koran or the Bible.
Buddingspritelet if jesus was around today I wonder if he would be considered a cult leader?Would he do the rounds on Kimmel and Letterman.Would he tell us we have totally misrepresented him.
Did you know that most religions recognize Jesus as a prophet?
What's up with the ufos?
I doubt Jeshua would recognize any of his teachings in today's version of Christianity
…any of the different Jeshuas whose stories were combined to give us the Jesus in the Bible.
I grew up questioning everything and pissing people off. It's what I do. The only preacherman not offended by this was/is my grandfather. He understands the value in questioning one's beliefs.
ufo's… perhaps the modern day version of spirit? something we don't quite understand and can't possibly explain… i dunno
I had a lot of questions growing up too,still do,but I learned early not everyone wants to engage in dialogue about all that is religion.
That's why here is interesting no one seems to shy away from dialogue.
Another thing what's up with suicide and cults?
some people would rather die than look within for the answers.
Oh, I so agree with this “I doubt Jeshua would recognize any of his teachings in today's version of Christianity”. I am blessed to be teaching social sciences and we do discuss this and a great many “controverisal” topics, luckily I have tenure :) The first thing I tell my students is “don't believe me, don't believe what you read in the book, don't believe…” I suggest that they research all this and, also, that in 100 years, this info won't be considered truth anyway!
“some people would rather die than look within for the answers”,Yup…and many do.Maybe that's the reason so many people join cults,it's like you do not question anymore you just sit back and let yourself be fed tons and tons of other people's ideas,and justification for everything is at your finger tips,or on tip of the tongue of the “leader?”Sort of flowing along in an artificial bliss like state,accepting your fate.
“don't believe me,don't believe what you read in the book,don't believe…..”I wish I had of had more teachers like that when i was younger,would have saved me much anguish in college.
Is it possible though that some cults are positive.That some religions actually do more good than harm?What distinguishes the positive from the negative?In 100 yrs where will we be on this ?In the same place,further along?
I think the difference is simply one of numbers. A cult is defined as a group that holds beliefs that are not shared by the mainstream culture. Surely early Christianity would be labeled a cult if Jesus were walking around today encouraging people to drink his blood and eat his body. The other thing that defines a cult is its threat to the mainstream culture and early Christianity was a threat to the dominant culture.
But our culture is particularly insidious because it has the ability to absorb everything and pervert it. There would probably be a TV show started to pick the 12 disciples based on some popular external criteria. After all there has to be some way to discern which voices to tune out of the din of millions shouting prophesy from soap boxes and TV stages.
So in this information age truth and beauty will be communicated very quietly and personally. So I might say that religion is hearing that quiet voice that speaks personally to you and a cult is being deaf to the inner voice and being tuned into the din. Take your pick, there are at least 31 flavors.
“So I might say that religion is hearing that quiet voice that speaks personally to you and a cult is being deaf to the inner voice and being tuned to the din.”
This sounds so good,but do most religions encourage freedom of thought?
Is it possible to be a Christian,and still follow the quiet voice?
Why are there so many restrictions on sexuality for example,when dealing with the Bible or the Koran?
Why is homosexuality considered wrong?
Why is shame so omnipresent in cults and religion?
Why does it always have to be about control?
I’d say that two people could be sitting right next to each other in a church and one belongs to a cult and one is a member of a religion with only one member. One follows rules and the other love. Or they could be in a café or walking alone on a beach. What I’m saying is we need to be our own religion and if we are not then we are part of a cult.
And sadly many people seek approval which is a piss poor substitute for love and they follow along blindly and allow themselves to be controlled by shame and guilt and fear.
I think a lot of this is designed to blur the differences……so as to make cults seem less dangerous. Cults flirt with or outright committ crimes, engage in unhealthy mind control, have selfish interests, a self-proclaimed guru with selfish interests, lies, dominance, prey on the weak, cause more harrm than good, bring people down….
The problem is that there are many of these organizations that are pretty tame……..bizzare and nutty, but tame. Some of them are very quiet and give you a lot of “good advice” and freedom to NOT choose them……they use a sort of “soft sell”…….gently ask for money maybe…..
I certainly don't have problems with these groups……..a bridge club for example……who on earth would call that a cult?
The ones on the line don't seem to require us to call them out on what they're up to. Those that prey on the weak and cause harm seem to require us to take a stand sometimes.
and look, I'm not saying that Rick Ross is the be-all and end-all of the analysis of cults. I only started checking his site out recently. He is ONE source of information. For all I know, Rick Ross likes to eat squirrels naked…..
But I look at his site and it seems pretty normal to me. It seems well-researched, logical, and normal. And to be quite honest, by and large the groups he lists are filled with very sad (and sometimes dangerous) people living very sad lives. And the “common themes” of what makes up a cult…….while again, not the be-all and end-all…….seem to make pretty darn good sense to me:
http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html
Fee, I do agree that some cults and religions do prey on the weak and cause harm but not all cults harm. I guess it all depends on one's definition of cult.
I am enjoying reading all your posts! Thank you BB for providing us with this lovely spot!!
Hugs and peaches all around,
Sprite
Hey thanks……and I agree! There are so many wonderful organizations and ways of thinking and clubs and activities to join that are positive. Let's reserve the word “cult” for that bad……….1…..5%? I don't know what percentage……but we know the REALLY bad ones when we see them. I have a feeling that at the root of all of these cults there is a lot of mental illness, especially in the followers……not just unhappiness……maybe depression…..but a lot of mental illness…….broken families……it's pretty sad.
I can't keep up with all the comments! oh, wait, this isn't MY blog! LOL
religion has been used since the time of Plato to control the people. What truth might have been in it gets twisted in such a way as to prevent people from looking within for their answers. NO - we got your answers right here in this book, or in this man, or in this tablet of rules. OBEY!
spirituality is looking within for the answers. religions often teach you not to question what they tell you to believe. Sometimes people define their spirituality in terms of the dominant religion, but if you ask them about it, you will find little in common between their beliefs and what the Church says is true. Didn't Mother Theresa say that she gave up being a Christian early on in her career, but stuck with it because it afforded her the opportunity to help more people than she otherwise would have?
it took me a while to find this, it came from a Native American friend of mine at MySpace. I share the Native American perspective, religion is and always has been one of the greatest tools being used against our people. (see the RedCrow video I posted on my blog yesterday) Yes, she is yelling….
SPIRITUALITY vs. RELIGION
SPIRITUALITY SAYS THAT GOD IS WITHIN US AND THAT WE DON'T NEED ANYONE ELSE TO MAKE THAT DIVINE CONNECTION FOR US.
RELIGION SAYS THAT WE ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD AND THAT WE NEED “THEM” TO MAKE THAT DIVINE CONNECTION.
SPIRITUALITY SAYS THAT WE ARE FREE TO MAKE CHOICES ON OUR OWN AND THAT WE MUST TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS.
RELIGION SAYS WE MUST MAKE THEIR CHOICES AND ACT THEIR WAY.
THE THEME OF SPIRITUALITY IS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
THE THEME OF RELIGION IS FEAR AND GUILT.
SPIRITUALITY DOES NOT REQUIRE US TO MAKE DONATIONS.
RELIGION HAS BECOME BIG BUSINESS.
SPIRITUALITY SAYS THERE IS NO HELL, NO JUDGEMENT, NO ANGRY GOD… THAT WE ARE LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY.
RELIGION SAYS THERE IS A HELL, GOD GETS ANGRY AND JUDGES US… THEREFORE, WE ARE NOT LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY.
SPIRITUALITY SAYS WE ARE FREE TO CHOOSE OUR OWN PATH TO GOD.
RELIGION COMMANDS US TO DO IT T HEIR WAY.
SPIRITUALITY SAYS WE GO TO GOD TO LIGHTEN OUR BURDEN.
RELIGION HAS TAUGHT US TO FEAR THEIR GOD
SPIRITUALITY SAYS WE SHOULD NOT BE ASHAMED OF OUR SEXUALITY… THAT IT SHOULD BE A SACRED CELEBRATION OF LOVE
RELIGION HAS TAUGHT US TO FEEL ASHAMED, GUILTY AND DIRTY ABOUT OUR SEXUALITY
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES US TO HONOUR AND RESPECT MOTHER EARTH
RELIGION HAS TOLD US TO “BE THOU FRUITFUL, MULTIPLY AND SUBDUE THE EARTH” I REPEAT… “SUBDUE THE EARTH”
SPIRITUALITY REMINDS US THAT WE ARE ONE WITH GOD AND ONE WITH EACH OTHER
RELIGION TEACHES DISUNITY AND SEPARATION WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF GOD
SPIRITUALITY SAYS GOD IS WITHIN
RELIGION SAYS HE IS IN HEAVEN AND THAT “THEY” ARE THE ONLY INTERMEDIARIES FOR US
SPIRITUALITY SAYS WE ARE BORN IN INNOCENCE AND PURITY
RELIGION SAYS WE ARE BORN WITH SIN
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES THAT WE ARE ON A LONG SPIRITUAL ADVENTURE AND JOURNEY WHICH WILL ULTIMATELY END BY REUNITING WITH OUR SOURCE
RELIGION SAYS WE'VE GOT ONE LIFE TO GET IT ALL RIGHT AND THERE IS NOTHING BUT HEAVEN OR HELL AFTER THAT
SPIRITUALITY SAYS WE ARE FREE TO EXPRESS
RELIGION GAVE US THE DREADED INQUISITION
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES UNCONDITIONAL LOVE FOR ALL
RELIGION GAVE US THE CRUSADES IN WHICH MANY WERE KILLED AND SLAUGHTERED IN THE NAME OF GOD
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES THAT WE SHOULD LOVE ONE ANOTHER UNCONDITIONALLY AND ALWAYS HONOUR THE RIGHTS AND CHOICES OF OTHERS
RELIGION TREATED NATIVE AMERICANS, THE MAYANS AND OTHER INDIGENOUS CULTURES AS SAVAGE PRIMITIVES WHO “MUST BE SAVED”
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES PEACE AND HARMONY
RELIGION HAS CAUSED MORE WARS AND MORE KILLING THAN ANY OTHER REASON
SPIRITUALITY SAYS RESPECT ALL LIVING THINGS
I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANY RELIGION SAY STOP SLAUGHTERING MILLIONS OF TREES EVERY YEAR FOR CHRIST'S BIRTHDAY
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES US TO HAVE FAITH IN OURSELVES
RELIGION TEACHES US TO HAVE FAITH IN THEM
SPIRITUALITY SAYS WE HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS… THAT WE CAN FIND THEM BY “GOING WITHIN”
RELIGION TEACHES US THAT IT HAS ALL THE ANSWERS AND ONLY ITS ANSWERS ARE THE RIGHT ONES
SPIRITUALITY TEACHES US TO SEARCH FOR THE UNIVERSAL TRUTHS AND OUR HEARTS WILL TELL US WHEN WE HAVE FOUND THEM
RELIGION TEACHES WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO ACCEPT THEIR VERSION OF THE TRUTH
WHICH ONE FEELS BETTER TO YOU? SPIRITUALITY OR RELIGION?
GO TO YOUR HEART FOR THE ANSWER IT WILL NEVER LIE TO YOU
Fee have you ever been to a bridge tournament?
“Unhealthy mind control”
“Self interests”
“lies”…….yup that's a bridge tournament;-) Seriously though all those things you mention are creepy.I went to some of the links you provided on your blog and then googled the rest.
The message seems harmless at first,I started to agree with a lot of which was being said,but then something happens and the creepiness factor sets in.It does become about what someone is saying and a subtle encouragement to follow and that is what screams the loudest”Follow me”, no room to question,no room for argument,the red flag is the obvious undercurrent of “I am right and no matter what you say you are not right if you disagree with me.This truly leaves no doubt in my mind that my the center from which all those ideas flows from is is sucking energy in,that is how it is fed,instead of letting the enrgy flow out to feed everyone in the way they desire to learn.The concept is of self service,way to much ego there,RED FLAG
Doug”One follows the “rules” the other love.This could be argued that all religions encourage love but that brings us back to the 'fear' and 'shame' which have no place around true love.You mention shame and guilt guiding us and they are poor guides.
Buddingspritelet I do like my peaches.
Friendstacy,wow this comment should be framed.
Obey is a word that's used a lot,we learn early in childhood to obey and it sets a tone for the rest of our lives.Obey at school,obey your elders,obey the politicians,I think it's time has come and is slowly shifting into obey your heart,I certainly hope so.
Thinking for ourselves this should start at birth,sadly most of the time it doesn't and I still catch myself encouraging my children to think like me,I am however working on this.
Yeah the donation thing.I understand the principle but to demand a donation or make it an obligation seems strange.Instead wouldn't it be great if we were encouraged to help those in need,like the homeless person on the street,or the elderly person living on a small pension,instead of feeling that the donation was more orientated to “spreading the word”
I admit however that there are many positive ways that the money from religion has been spent,but it's still in the name of religion and never an anonymous gift to help someone,no strings attached.
I can use language to make anything sound great, or make anything sound horrible. The bottom line is, rational people know it when they see it.
Yet many people will claim that their choices are right…and who am I to argue unless it infringes on basic human rights.
perhaps is was my upbringing,my path in life whatever,but faith sure is a curious thing.
If I choose to truly believe in something then the truth is real,however it does come down to the belief and how it drives you.
From what I've read and listened to,most of agree that freedom of thought is essential in navigating our life.Perhaps it is the guidance factor that attracts many people.This relationship between yourself and the “higher” being which enables people to feel the comfort they so desire.
When you get down to the bottom line though you are responsible for your acts regardless of who encourages you.Each act you commit in the name of whatever is still an act you chose to commit regardless.
We can say that people are brainwashed and this can be true up to a point,but in the end you choose how you are going to live your life.
So are religion and cults the same?
Can we truly believe that what we do is in the name of Allah,or God,or all the other appellations,or does it boil down to us?
We are who we are and the choices we make can be based solely on this .You can pay as much lip-service as you want to the “Higher” being,you in the end are responsible for you,I'd think.
Hi B.B.!
Huh, guild and shame guiding us?
No thanks on that coolaid!I've tasted it and it sucks the big one!
Blah!!!!
I was attempting to say that being guided by love is the only way and guilt, shame and fear are not in love. And it's impossible to judge if someone is being guided from within. It's hard enough to stay personally connected so I really don't know if that person in the church or part of that cult is being led by love or by fear and it really doesn't change what I'm going to do which is put on my shoes and go outside.
Hey it's Friday!!
TGIF!!
I shouldn't always use the term “bottom line is…”….it's more of a saying that I use than me trying to TELL people what the bottom line is…
Certainly, when you're hurting people, you're a cult. Another guideline to use would be the LAW. Not that I agree with all of our laws, I certainly don't. But if you get law enforcement involved…….something's up….
And yeah, I know that the law got involved with Jesus. I have no idea if Jesus was who he said he was. It's possible to be a fake and harmless at the same time.
Maybe Forest Gump would say “Cult is as cult does”.
Thank you, friendstacy, for providing Red Crow's insight, it so resonates with me.
An offside :) I know people used to go out in the woods and cut trees down and today In Minnesota we have tree farms where the trees are planted and selectively cut for Christmas. They also sell trees with the roots still intact so they can be replanted.
In the field of Sociology, we have a concept called the Thomas Theorem where what one believes is true becomes true in its consequences (which then may or may not become a self-fulfilling prophecy). There was a story told on radio (before tv) War of the Worlds (October 31,1938) by Orson Wells. People tuning in late thought the story was real and chaos reigned for a bit and some people died as a result. Wells almost lost his job.
How this translates into religion and cults, many religious followers believe that one must follow the rules of deity or else we will go to hell. And they are trying to protect and save us perhaps because they really do love us. (I actually tell my students I believe in all the religions/spiritual paths; I want to be sure I have the right one.) Of course this “protection” can result in the opposite where 'nonbelievers” are either forced to practice the faith or, for example, burned at the stake.
I have to run over and check into my online class. They are talking about religion and it's getting heated :)
hugs all,
Sprite
“certainly when you're hurting people,you're a cult” What about circumcision;-)
Do cults have monopoly on hurting people?I see references to much weird goings on with some cults/religions,but there can also be evidence of this everywhere.
Certainly the church is not above scandal,nor are the various”cults” mentioned in the articles I've been reading.So what is the difference,is it the ufo thingy or the mass suicide thing,what truly differentiates the two,aside from timeframe.
Is a cult just new religion?
Are there any women leaders of “cults”?
Maybe it is the listen to the book as opposed to listen to me.That the prophets of religion are dead but the “prophets” of cults are very alive.
In a 1000 yrs are people going to be worshipping these new” Prophets”.
I'll tell you what…….you send me $1000 and then I'll come over there, we'll play bridge and watch gay porn. Then I'll circumsize your cat, beat you, and then I'll commit suicide, and then you tell me if it's a cult.
Well I'll tell you one thing alive or dead you're never coming to my house again.Nobody but nobody touches my cat;-)
Fee I know what you are aiming at but the question goes deeper than just a pissing contest between whose cult horror story is worse.
Islam and Christianity were are considered cults in the classical sense of the word,and if you look at when they started,there were few members and a prophet.Although it appears that Jesus didn't have a penchant for really young girls,or a need to spread the word about ufo's,who are we to truly know what he thought or said?If we wern't there and we did not hold witness to what went down,but we believe than we are riding on faith.
I also understand your take on the truly ridiculous,here in Quebec there were two incidents where people took there lives following the teaching of these “prophets”,and it make me sigh when I see how many people follow blindly the word of someone else,especially when they insist I am right and don't disagree with me or me and my followers will hound you til you cave etc…..
I suspect that Jesus wasn't as full of himself as some of these modern day “prophets” are.I have this feeling that he was feeling his way as much as the next man and somehow found himself caught up in something huge.Who knows?
With some of those things you mentioned it could come down to the degree you get involved. That's why we have the term “Jesus freaks”, which are separate from christians. Most Islamists don't blow up things……..a lot of this stuff out there is on the line……and we could keep going with it……was Timothy Leary a cult?
When it's on the fence like this we can use language and one can say “yes” and another can say “no”. I'm only going to reserve my criticism for the really clear ones.
Hey, wouldn't it be funny if 1,000 years from now someone digs up 5 passports and a penis pump in Oregon and everyone decides to worship Amoron??
I told you I was feeling saucy.
Your cat is safe from me! I'll put up a picture of our two cats soon……
Now now no names,that's not being respectful :-)
You are feeling saucy.Bearnaise or Bechamel,take your pick.
What's a passport;-)
I'm sorry about that……..I didn't mean it Mr. Leary!!!
I just want to say that I thought Timothy Leary was very irresponsible.
But I better get out of here and go get some beers before I get in trouble!
jt
Timothy leary’s dead.
No, no, no, no, he’s outside ( the café with steamy windows) looking in.
Timothy leary’s dead.
No, no, no, no, he’s outside looking in.
He’ll fly his astral plane,
Takes you trips around the bay,
Brings you back the same day,
Timothy leary. timothy leary.
Along the coast you’ll hear them boast
About a light they say that shines so clear.
So raise your glass, we'll drink a toast
To the little man who sells you thrills along the pier.
He’ll take you up, he'll bring you down,
He’ll plant your feet back firmly on the ground.
He flies so high, he swoops so low,
He knows exactly which way he’s gonna go.
Timothy leary. timothy leary.
the LSD counter-culture was a CIA MKULTRA mind control experiment.
cult or not, it was an attempt by the government to control people.
I believe that any attempt by any person or group of people to control people's behavior, no matter how well-intentioned, is abusive and wrong. I believe that all people should be free to decide for themselves what to believe, rather than being forced to hold a certain viewpoint through fear and other manipulative means. I believe, that if allowed to determine for themselves what is right and what is wrong, that people would choose not to harm other people. I believe all people have a conscience, an inner sense of right and wrong, and should be allowed to freely exercise it.
“The worship of the “Great Mystery” was silent, solitary, free from all self-seeking. It was silent, because all speech is of necessity feeble and imperfect; therefore the souls of my ancestors ascended to God in wordless adoration. It was solitary, because they believed that He is nearer to us in solitude, and there were no priests authorized to come between a man and his Maker. None might exhort or confess or in any way meddle with the religious experience of another. Among us all men were created sons of God and stood erect, as conscious of their divinity. Our faith might not be formulated in creeds, nor forced upon any who were unwilling to receive it; hence there was no preaching, proselytizing, nor persecution, neither were there any scoffers or atheists.”
- Ohiyesa (Charles Alexander Eastman)
this is my perspective, also.
Well, Stace… if they were trying to control me, it sure as hell didn't work. ;-)
I'll have to disagree about the origins of LSD. Albert Hoffman invented it and he had nothing to do with the CIA or mind control experiments. Of course, the army, as well as pyschologists, got involved because people saw potential uses for it. The army gave up, as having soldiers run around laughing and climbing trees seemed useless, and they never figured out how to properly deliver it anyway…..(you can find video of army experiments on Youtube).
It was Ken Kesey who volunteered himself for experiments in California in the early 60s who was the next catalyst………he LIKED it…….and suddenly his friends (The Merry Pranksters) were conducting tests and painting a bus and TRA-VEL-ING…
If the government was trying to use it to control people, it ended up having the opposite effect…..
jt
I took acid twice in my life.Both times were when I was in my teens.
I have to say I wasn't particularly fond of the 8 hour laugh fest,and when it was over I was relieved,if anything that there was no permanent damage done to my jaw or my brain.
Friendstacy you make valid points about control,but I wonder if there are not some people who consider themselves religious but who are for all intents and purposes “free”?
Fee you are quite the expert on LSD,anything we should know;-)
K.E.I get this sense that you can channel the 60's and 70's am I right?
Doug first time I heard this poem/song,no mention of the 8 hour laughathon.
Glad I popped back over, this blog is hotter than my school one :)
Fee, I say something to my students about what of our material culture could be dug up 1000 years hence (I use the illustration of playboy magazines and how it might appear that women were revered and dominant).
I believe we are controlled by our society in a plethora of ways, the key is that we realize how, when, where, what, who, why and then make choices (hence we become free). I need a job, I prefer to keep the one I have at this time, so there are things I choose to do that I would prefer not to. If something was morally and ethically wrong to me (and this has happened) I would not do it, explain why to whom, and take the consequences. Now, if I had children to support, that might get a bit sticky . Please help, I would really like insight from those with children.